Hello all you lovely people, Do any of you have a policy on what to do if you get an unwanted intruder in the building? We have a very brief one but it pretty much amounts to hide and phone the cops. There are very few rooms within the building that anyone could lock themselves in. Also, with the best will in the world, without having someone in the foyer from 8am to 10pm daily checking who is coming in, it is impossible to prevent anyone from coming in who shouldn't be here. Any help is gratefully appreciated. All the best, Ceals Pronouns: her, she Building Manager Walthamstow Quaker Meeting House 1a Jewel Road London E17 4QU Tel 020 8521 2363 Email: walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com Account name: Walthamstow Quaker Meeting (Premises) Account number: 00010329 Sort code: 40-52-40
Hi Ceals I can't help as we have pretty much the same as you in terms of lack of helpful policy and open access without the staff presence. I'm responding because it is a very live issue for us, having recently had someone lock themselves into one of our toilets and then refuse to leave and a very lackluster response from the police call handler saying 'well they obviously just need to use the toilet, what's the problem, they're behind a locked door'. This was half an hour after we had closed; I found a 2 1/2 ltr empty cider bottle hidden in a cupboard in the toilet cubicle after they eventually left. The police did come half an hour after I called them, and we would not have got him out without their help. I left the building and waited outside as I had no idea what I would be greeted with when he did eventually leave the toilet - size, weight, physical strength or control - but kept watching through the windows to make sure he didn't escalate things inside. This is just the latest of several incidents, and although the local committee and Area Meeting Trustees are working on a Lone Worker policy, I very much doubt it will address this issue in any meaningful way. I'd be very interested to hear if any Meetings have something that is helpful and workable in place - other than having 'reception' staff watching the door whenever the building is open. Thanks for asking the questions Ceals. Tasha Natasha Heny Meeting House Manager (Warden) Lancaster Quaker Meeting House lancasterquakers@gmail.com 01524 62971 <https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Lancaster+Quaker+Meeting+...> (I work flexible hours over 5 days and have two days off each week) On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 at 12:52, Walthamstow Quakers < walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ceals and Tasha Thank you for raising such a huge and frightening question. The answer flummoxes me as much as it did your police force. I wonder if Quaker Life might hold one of monthly on line meetings to discuss the matter and propose solutions. Should each Quaker local meeting have a security policy written by Quaker Britian Yearly Meeting in the same way that we have a Child Safeguarding Meeting- A national policy individualised to every local Quaker meeting. Something including locking the doors at all times. Policing the entry during lettings. Its such an unexpected problem ... but it worries me that your meeting have been found to be breach able by someone in a needy community who will tell everybody else in their community. You may have to expect further attempts to lock into a toilet. When i first read your words i thought you must have been one of our rich Quaker buildings and had a serious burglery. At Coventry Quaker Meeting one summer, two reasonable rough sleepers camped in our garden bushes. This was frightening and challengiing - how should a caring Quaker meeting respond. When carelessly discarded needles appeared we asked the sleepers to leave. We felt we had to cut down the bushes too and Coventry now has a fruit and flower planted large area of garden insted that cannot hide campers. Wishing you both a lot of sympathy and all the best david (rugby local quaker meeting) David Fish 33 Magnolia Drive Lutterworth LE17 4RS Email -davidfishcf@msn.com<mailto:davidfishcf@msn.com> ________________________________ From: Lancaster Quakers <lancasterquakers@gmail.com> Sent: 29 April 2025 13:13 To: Walthamstow Quakers <walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> Cc: Quaker Wardenship Support <wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org> Subject: [wardenship] Re: Intruder policy Hi Ceals I can't help as we have pretty much the same as you in terms of lack of helpful policy and open access without the staff presence. I'm responding because it is a very live issue for us, having recently had someone lock themselves into one of our toilets and then refuse to leave and a very lackluster response from the police call handler saying 'well they obviously just need to use the toilet, what's the problem, they're behind a locked door'. This was half an hour after we had closed; I found a 2 1/2 ltr empty cider bottle hidden in a cupboard in the toilet cubicle after they eventually left. The police did come half an hour after I called them, and we would not have got him out without their help. I left the building and waited outside as I had no idea what I would be greeted with when he did eventually leave the toilet - size, weight, physical strength or control - but kept watching through the windows to make sure he didn't escalate things inside. This is just the latest of several incidents, and although the local committee and Area Meeting Trustees are working on a Lone Worker policy, I very much doubt it will address this issue in any meaningful way. I'd be very interested to hear if any Meetings have something that is helpful and workable in place - other than having 'reception' staff watching the door whenever the building is open. Thanks for asking the questions Ceals. Tasha Natasha Heny Meeting House Manager (Warden) Lancaster Quaker Meeting House lancasterquakers@gmail.com<mailto:lancasterquakers@gmail.com> 01524 62971<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Lancaster+Quaker+Meeting+...> (I work flexible hours over 5 days and have two days off each week) On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 at 12:52, Walthamstow Quakers <walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com<mailto:walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello all you lovely people, Do any of you have a policy on what to do if you get an unwanted intruder in the building? We have a very brief one but it pretty much amounts to hide and phone the cops. There are very few rooms within the building that anyone could lock themselves in. Also, with the best will in the world, without having someone in the foyer from 8am to 10pm daily checking who is coming in, it is impossible to prevent anyone from coming in who shouldn't be here. Any help is gratefully appreciated. All the best, Ceals Pronouns: her, she Building Manager Walthamstow Quaker Meeting House 1a Jewel Road London E17 4QU Tel 020 8521 2363 Email: walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com<mailto:walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> Account name: Walthamstow Quaker Meeting (Premises) Account number: 00010329 Sort code: 40-52-40 _______________________________________________ wardenship mailing list -- wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org<mailto:wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org> To unsubscribe send an email to wardenship-leave@lists.quaker.eu.org<mailto:wardenship-leave@lists.quaker.eu.org>
At Coventry Meeting we had a distressing and taxing experience with a homeless person with complex needs. The person broke into the Meeting House through a rear glass-panelled door. I discovered the broken glass panel, and found him asleep inside. I contacted the police but did not press charges. He was found sleeping in a small storeroom a day or so later. We think he gained entry through a window someone had left unlatched (or which he had unlatched himself after presenting himself to a migrant support group using the premises.) There then followed an intensive effort to find him emergency accommodation during a very cold time of year. He kept returning, using a bench in our (rear) garden to sleep on. This caused distress to some of our 'lets' which meant one of our team had to be present when vulnerable groups were meeting. We also displayed notices in prominent places outside the entrance advising homeless who to contact in the city for assistance. Eventually we removed the bench and advised groups using our premises for their meetings to ensure they left the building secure etc. We also reminded them not to leave the front door unattended whenever unlocked. He must have found somewhere else - because he has not been seen around for over two months. We found this a difficult and challenging experience - and we were out of pocket in terms of having to replace a secure/reinforced glass panel. Andrew Rigby -------------------- Lettings Team Coventry Friends Meeting House email: covqlets@googlemail.com<mailto:covqlets@googlemail.com> ________________________________ From: David Fish Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2025 04:33 To: Lancaster Quakers; Walthamstow Quakers Cc: Quaker Wardenship Support Subject: [wardenship] Re: Intruder policy Dear Ceals and Tasha Thank you for raising such a huge and frightening question. The answer flummoxes me as much as it did your police force. I wonder if Quaker Life might hold one of monthly on line meetings to discuss the matter and propose solutions. Should each Quaker local meeting have a security policy written by Quaker Britian Yearly Meeting in the same way that we have a Child Safeguarding Meeting- A national policy individualised to every local Quaker meeting. Something including locking the doors at all times. Policing the entry during lettings. Its such an unexpected problem ... but it worries me that your meeting have been found to be breach able by someone in a needy community who will tell everybody else in their community. You may have to expect further attempts to lock into a toilet. When i first read your words i thought you must have been one of our rich Quaker buildings and had a serious burglery. At Coventry Quaker Meeting one summer, two reasonable rough sleepers camped in our garden bushes. This was frightening and challengiing - how should a caring Quaker meeting respond. When carelessly discarded needles appeared we asked the sleepers to leave. We felt we had to cut down the bushes too and Coventry now has a fruit and flower planted large area of garden insted that cannot hide campers. Wishing you both a lot of sympathy and all the best david (rugby local quaker meeting) David Fish 33 Magnolia Drive Lutterworth LE17 4RS Email -davidfishcf@msn.com<mailto:davidfishcf@msn.com> ________________________________ From: Lancaster Quakers <lancasterquakers@gmail.com> Sent: 29 April 2025 13:13 To: Walthamstow Quakers <walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> Cc: Quaker Wardenship Support <wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org> Subject: [wardenship] Re: Intruder policy Hi Ceals I can't help as we have pretty much the same as you in terms of lack of helpful policy and open access without the staff presence. I'm responding because it is a very live issue for us, having recently had someone lock themselves into one of our toilets and then refuse to leave and a very lackluster response from the police call handler saying 'well they obviously just need to use the toilet, what's the problem, they're behind a locked door'. This was half an hour after we had closed; I found a 2 1/2 ltr empty cider bottle hidden in a cupboard in the toilet cubicle after they eventually left. The police did come half an hour after I called them, and we would not have got him out without their help. I left the building and waited outside as I had no idea what I would be greeted with when he did eventually leave the toilet - size, weight, physical strength or control - but kept watching through the windows to make sure he didn't escalate things inside. This is just the latest of several incidents, and although the local committee and Area Meeting Trustees are working on a Lone Worker policy, I very much doubt it will address this issue in any meaningful way. I'd be very interested to hear if any Meetings have something that is helpful and workable in place - other than having 'reception' staff watching the door whenever the building is open. Thanks for asking the questions Ceals. Tasha Natasha Heny Meeting House Manager (Warden) Lancaster Quaker Meeting House lancasterquakers@gmail.com<mailto:lancasterquakers@gmail.com> 01524 62971<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Lancaster+Quaker+Meeting+...> (I work flexible hours over 5 days and have two days off each week) On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 at 12:52, Walthamstow Quakers <walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com<mailto:walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello all you lovely people, Do any of you have a policy on what to do if you get an unwanted intruder in the building? We have a very brief one but it pretty much amounts to hide and phone the cops. There are very few rooms within the building that anyone could lock themselves in. Also, with the best will in the world, without having someone in the foyer from 8am to 10pm daily checking who is coming in, it is impossible to prevent anyone from coming in who shouldn't be here. Any help is gratefully appreciated. All the best, Ceals Pronouns: her, she Building Manager Walthamstow Quaker Meeting House 1a Jewel Road London E17 4QU Tel 020 8521 2363 Email: walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com<mailto:walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> Account name: Walthamstow Quaker Meeting (Premises) Account number: 00010329 Sort code: 40-52-40 _______________________________________________ wardenship mailing list -- wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org<mailto:wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org> To unsubscribe send an email to wardenship-leave@lists.quaker.eu.org<mailto:wardenship-leave@lists.quaker.eu.org>
Dear Ceals and Natasha, It is functionally impossible, in a busy building, to completely prevent people from coming in, though all hirers - and indeed all Quakers who have a fob, too - sign an agreement pledging not to leave the outside doors propped open or unattended, and not to let anyone in who is not their personal guest. When people break this agreement (and they do), one of the things I emphasise is how it puts the lone workers we have here at risk. Leaving the door propped open and unattended also gets them a very firm talk about how flouting the Ts&Cs could put their continued hire at risk. We're a bit of a warren, with many of our rooms having two ways to enter or leave, and we are in a very busy part of town. We do have resident volunteers, and one of their tasks every night after the last of the hirers have left is to do a walk-around of the building, opening every door that isn't locked (including in the non-public areas of the building), to make sure someone hasn't squirrelled themselves away, and to make sure that the doors to the street are properly closed. Our cleaner works overnight, in the small hours, and he also checks the building as he works his way around. The one time in the last seven years that this happened, it was discovered by a hirer opening the door of her hired room in the basement, to find someone sleeping across the doorway. I signposted this person to a range of appropriate local services (which the Meeting supports), and we continued to welcome him to worship, etc, until he found what he was looking for and moved on. We've had our fair share of characters come through the building, and in many ways it's amazing that there hasn't been more of an issue, bearing in mind the area we are in includes a lot of very vulnerable people. When we have had thefts (eg of handbags, or our portable projector), it's happened at the same time as Meeting for Worship, when our front door is open (as the doorkeeper's purpose is to welcome people in, not keep them out!), so I don't think there's much that can be done about that apart from to remind people to take care of their belongings, as it's easy to relax in the Meeting House and think there's no risk at all. As for a formal policy on what to do when we've had people come in when they shouldn't: normally I'm the one called to manage the situation, but we don't have a policy as such. Perhaps we should, so I'm grateful that you raised this. Lorna Richardson Premises Coordinator Westminster Quaker Meeting House (Religious Society of Friends) www.westminsterquakers.org.uk www.westminsterquakers.org.uk/room-hire 07897 591961 8 Hop Gardens, off St Martins Lane, London, WC2N 4EH If requiring assistance in an emergency, call 07895 978 092 *Please note I am part-time, and work flexible working hours; I don't expect anyone to respond outside their own normal working hours.* On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 12:38, David Fish <davidfishcf@msn.com> wrote:
My information is several years old so it may well no longer be true. As of say 2012 a certain west London meeting house had keys scattered around the landscape. Users were advised that if they were stupid enough to leave valuable items in the meeting house they deserved what was coming to them. ---They did have the very occasional rough sleeper but not enough to make them change their policy. Best, Margot Lunnon, erstwhile clerk of trustees of Teesdale and Cleveland AM On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 12:37, David Fish <davidfishcf@msn.com> wrote:
Hi all,We haven’t (touch wood) experienced any major issues with intruders at Muswell Hill recently. The front of our building is covered by dusk to Dawn lighting using Phillips ‘Wiz’ lightbulbs, which are very low cost, connect to your WiFi, and can be set to switch on, off or change light levels at sunset and sunrise without needing to adjust physical time switches or install expensive sensors. The sides and rear of our building are all covered by simple LED bulkhead lights with motion sensors. Like many Meeting houses we have a digital code lock on our front door which is constantly locked (apart from Sunday meetings) and we change hirers codes quite regularly. We also have a small scale CCTV system purchased on eBay for £30, which is attached to our warden’s flat. Be aware that cctv on public buildings needs to be registered and a fee paid.Hope the above is useful!George -- Resident Warden Team - Olivia, George and Ulyses Muswell Hill Quaker Meeting House, 77 Church Crescent N10 3NE Tel: 020 8883 2180 https://muswellhill.quakermeeting.org/ On Tuesday, 29 April 2025 at 13:36:58 BST, Lancaster Quakers <lancasterquakers@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Ceals I can't help as we have pretty much the same as you in terms of lack of helpful policy and open access without the staff presence. I'm responding because it is a very live issue for us, having recently had someone lock themselves into one of our toilets and then refuse to leave and a very lackluster response from the police call handler saying 'well they obviously just need to use the toilet, what's the problem, they're behind a locked door'. This was half an hour after we had closed; I found a 2 1/2 ltr empty cider bottle hidden in a cupboard in the toilet cubicle after they eventually left. The police did come half an hour after I called them, and we would not have got him out without their help. I left the building and waited outside as I had no idea what I would be greeted with when he did eventually leave the toilet - size, weight, physical strength or control - but kept watching through the windows to make sure he didn't escalate things inside. This is just the latest of several incidents, and although the local committee and Area Meeting Trustees are working on a Lone Worker policy, I very much doubt it will address this issue in any meaningful way. I'd be very interested to hear if any Meetings have something that is helpful and workable in place - other than having 'reception' staff watching the door whenever the building is open. Thanks for asking the questions Ceals. Tasha Natasha HenyMeeting House Manager (Warden)Lancaster Quaker Meeting Houselancasterquakers@gmail.com01524 62971 (I work flexible hours over 5 days and have two days off each week) On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 at 12:52, Walthamstow Quakers <walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> wrote: Hello all you lovely people, Do any of you have a policy on what to do if you get an unwanted intruder in the building? We have a very brief one but it pretty much amounts to hide and phone the cops. There are very few rooms within the building that anyone could lock themselves in. Also, with the best will in the world, without having someone in the foyer from 8am to 10pm daily checking who is coming in, it is impossible to prevent anyone from coming in who shouldn't be here. Any help is gratefully appreciated. All the best, Ceals Pronouns: her, sheBuilding ManagerWalthamstow Quaker Meeting House1a Jewel RoadLondon E17 4QU Tel 020 8521 2363 Email: walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com Account name: Walthamstow Quaker Meeting (Premises)Account number: 00010329Sort code: 40-52-40_______________________________________________ wardenship mailing list -- wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org To unsubscribe send an email to wardenship-leave@lists.quaker.eu.org _______________________________________________ wardenship mailing list -- wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org To unsubscribe send an email to wardenship-leave@lists.quaker.eu.org
Dear Friends, I am unclear as to what is being prioritised for protection here. I think we should always be prioritising personal safety over property, but, and maybe this is just my interpretation of what I have been reading, it see most of the discussion has been about property. Having been confronted by a homeless person in our toilets who was cutting his hair and turned towards me aggressively with scissors in his hand, I am mindufl that I was fortunate enought that he was not between me and the exit. We called the ploice who encouraged him to leave. I am confident that had my exit been blocked by the homeless person that taking out my phone to call for help would have catalysed the situation, and probably not in my favour! I noted that Oxford seemed to use a WhatApp group to confirm wellbeing at the end of a shift, I would question whether abscence of a message at the end of the day, compared to recieving a message, would trigger action. HSE have some very good information on Protecting those who work alone, it states: Lone working does not always mean a higher risk of violence, but it does make workers more vulnerable. The lack of nearby support makes it harder for them to prevent an incident. ... Some of the key workplace violence risks include: - late evening or early morning work, when fewer workers are around - lone workers, such as security staff, who have authority over customers and are enforcing rules - people affected by alcohol or drugs - carrying money or valuable equipment See: Lone working: Protect those working alone - HSE <https://www.hse.gov.uk/lone-working/employer/violence.htm#violence> I wonder if for some meetings, it might be worth having a lone worker device as a quick way to call for help without escalating the situation. Obviously, if we are prioritising property over people, that becomes less important. In Friendship, Karl Saffron Walden Quaker Meeting On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:53 PM Walthamstow Quakers < walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Friends, As part of the recent employers resource updates there is now a template policy for lone working, which I have linked below. This changes the emphasis from thinking about an intruder as a risk to thinking about how to look after those who are in the premises alone. It is aimed at employees but by extension should cover role-holders and can also help thinking about other building users and the responsibilities we have in managing premises. All employers' support and resources are on the website, www.quaker.org.uk/employers<http://www.quaker.org.uk/employers>. Almost all of this year's updates are now complete. https://www.quaker.org.uk/documents/er-example-lone-worker-policy-04-2025 In friendship, Ollie Oliver Waterhouse (he/him) Quaker Life Team Leader, Local and Area Governance Quakers in Britain 020 7663 1007 (Direct) oliverw@quaker.org.uk<mailto:oliverw@quaker.org.uk> | www.quaker.org.uk<http://www.quaker.org.uk/> Book time with me (30 minutes)<https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/45557f13eb1a45d5810a699f5ccf952d@...> (15 minutes)<https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/45557f13eb1a45d5810a699f5ccf952d@...> Follow Quakers in Britain on Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/BritishQuakers>, YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/quakersinbritain>, Instagram<https://www.instagram.com/britishquakers/> and Bluesky<https://bsky.app/profile/britishquakers.bsky.social>. The Quaker Centre Bookshop and Café<https://www.friendshouse.co.uk/quaker-centre/> are open to the public. Friends House is open for meetings and events. All enquiries welcome to events@quaker.org.uk<mailto:events@quaker.org.uk> or www.friendshouse.co.uk/booking-enquiry. If you would like to support our work, you can give online at www.quaker.org.uk/donate. Britain Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) Registered charity number 1127633 | Friends House, 173 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BJ ________________________________ Quakers say: Religion is about the whole of life. ________________________________ From: Walthamstow Quakers <walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> Sent: 29 April 2025 12:33 To: Quaker Wardenship Support <wardenship@lists.quaker.eu.org> Subject: [wardenship] Intruder policy Hello all you lovely people, Do any of you have a policy on what to do if you get an unwanted intruder in the building? We have a very brief one but it pretty much amounts to hide and phone the cops. There are very few rooms within the building that anyone could lock themselves in. Also, with the best will in the world, without having someone in the foyer from 8am to 10pm daily checking who is coming in, it is impossible to prevent anyone from coming in who shouldn't be here. Any help is gratefully appreciated. All the best, Ceals Pronouns: her, she Building Manager Walthamstow Quaker Meeting House 1a Jewel Road London E17 4QU Tel 020 8521 2363 Email: walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com<mailto:walthamstow.quakers@gmail.com> Account name: Walthamstow Quaker Meeting (Premises) Account number: 00010329 Sort code: 40-52-40
participants (9)
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Coventry Quakers Lettings -
David Fish -
FM Lunnon -
Lancaster Quakers -
Muswell Hill Local Meeting -
Oliver Waterhouse -
Saffron Walden Quaker Meeting Friends Meeting -
Walthamstow Quakers -
Westminster Wardens